(344) Male specific ballet training with Damien Johnson, Upper Division Head of The Washington School of Ballet
This week on Conversations on Dance, we are happy to bring you a chat with our friend, Damien Johnson. The topic of today’s conversation was suggested by one of our listeners who was looking for us to delve into male specific training and some of the issues that arise that are different from females in the field. Damien is a permanent guest faculty member at The School of American Ballet, and a sought after teacher who is certified in the American Ballet Theatre National Training Curriculum in Pre-Primary-Level 3 as well as classical Pilates through Power Pilates. It was just announced that Damien will be stepping into the role of Upper Division Head at The Washington School of Ballet after his recent time as a faculty at Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet.
Damien is the perfect person to chat with about this topic as he shares advice for young male dancers navigating an aspiring career in ballet.
Special thanks to Brett Elizabeth Gardner for this topic suggestion. As a parent of a male dancer, who is now a part of a second company, Brett has founded The Ballet Help Desk, to help other parents support their dancers as they navigate the serious ballet training path. The Ballet Help Desk provides an extensive digital library, featuring a collection of articles and videos. Users can explore various topics, ranging from the path to becoming a professional dancer to how to choose a ballet residential program to how ballet competitions fit into the mix. Be sure the check them out at ballethelpdesk.com.
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TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was generated automatically. It’s accuracy may vary.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:00:03]:
I'm Rebecca King Ferraro.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:00:05]:
And I'm Michael Sean Breeden, and you're listening to Conversations on Dance.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:00:12]:
This week on Conversations on Dance, we are happy to bring you a chat with our friend Damien Johnson. The topic of today's conversation was suggested by one of our listeners who is looking for us to delve into male specific training and some of the issues that are rise that are different from females in the field. Damien is a permanent guest faculty member at the School of American Ballet and a soughtafter teacher who is certified in the American Ballet Theater national training curriculum. It was just announced that Damien will be stepping into the role of upper division head at the Washington School of Ballet. After his recent time as a faculty member at the Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet, damien is the perfect person to chat with about this topic as he shares advice for young male dancers navigating an aspiring career in ballet. Special thanks to Brett Elizabeth Garner for the topic. Suggestion today, as a parent of a male dancer who is now part of a second company, brett has founded the Ballet Help Desk to help other parents support their dancers as they navigate the serious ballet training path. The Ballet Help Desk provides an extensive digital library featuring a collection of articles and videos. Users can explore various topics ranging from the path to becoming a professional dancer, to how to choose a ballet residential program to how ballet competitions fit into the mix. Be sure to check them out@ballethelpdesk.com or click the link in the show notes. Now let's get to our chat with Damien.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:01:34]:
Damien. Welcome back to Conversations on Dance. We've missed you.
Damien Johnson [00:01:39]:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's always such a treat to get to spend time with both of you.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:01:45]:
So good to see you.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:01:47]:
We haven't talked to you on the podcast for a few years now, I realize. I think it was 2020, so we've got some catching up to do.
Damien Johnson [00:01:55]:
We do.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:01:55]:
I don't quite recall. I mean, everything is a blur from that year. Where were you at that point? Were you already on permanent guest faculty at SAB? Had you taught at CPYB? What was your life at that moment?
Damien Johnson [00:02:08]:
I was definitely still at the Washington School of Ballet, and I think that I know it's such a blur. I think shortly after that was my first summer, right after the Pandemic, after SAB went back from Zoom, was the first time that I taught there as well as the first time that I came to CPYB. So things went moving.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:02:30]:
Yeah, but that's like, two highly prestigious institutions. SAB in particular, must have felt like a beautiful homecoming. We went to SAB together, and we love that institution. How did that feel for you when they first asked you to start teaching there?
Damien Johnson [00:02:50]:
I was really excited. Of course, I had to get over the nervous jitters, but I just also took it back to remembering being a student there and how special it was and the things that I've learned that I just wanted to bring back to my adult self and not being that insecure dancer young kid anymore.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:03:12]:
Right, that's so true.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:03:15]:
So how often were you teaching there then? Because you were on guest faculty, is that right?
Damien Johnson [00:03:19]:
Yes, I still am currently on guest faculty, so I go there usually for a week during the summer program, and then I pop in during the year when I can. I was lucky enough to do I was a fellow as well, and I got to study with Katrina Killian a lot and spend a lot of time shadowing her. And, I mean, she knows what she's king, and so just having that passed on has been really special.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:03:50]:
We talk about passing on choreography, I guess that's sometimes just because when we're talking with choreographers or dancers, that's a lot of our focus. But the way that teaching is passed down is just so essential and important from person to person.
Damien Johnson [00:04:04]:
It's true. And I feel also, as we grow and so many things have changed, the way you approach teaching and things that used to might have gotten away with in the past just aren't a thing any longer. So just also bringing care to the students has been really important to me.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:04:28]:
Yeah. I mean, bringing, like, a 21st century sensibility to the training that we loved and the way of dancing that we loved. Yeah, that's the goal, I think. Rebecca, I was just thinking very specifically, katrina, for instance, she takes directly from the original Russian playbook of the early Russian teachers. So when they teach the babies, they do Madame Duden's training, like, what, the very first days? I mean, not the first days, but fairly soon. When we were at SAB, madam Duden and Madam Chomkovsky were still there teaching. And, I mean, Tumkovsky lived to be nearly 100, maybe exactly 100. So these were women that have been at the organization for a long time.
Damien Johnson [00:05:18]:
There's this gorgeous porter bra that Katrina teaches the little baby, and, I mean, it's just watching them all do it, it gives me goosebumps. But it is Madam Duden. She is one of the first things that she brought, and it's really special to keep that lineage going.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:05:35]:
Wow, that's so cool. And so how often are you doing these shadowing experiences?
Damien Johnson [00:05:41]:
I haven't been there. I'm allowed to pop in as often as I can because it's gotten a little busy. And then when classes were on Zoom, I was allowed to just log in and watch, which was really cool. And getting to watch Cheryl Ware and I Sean, it was just, like, fantastic. So I try to go there as often as I can, but things have gotten a little bit busy.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:06:08]:
I'm so jealous when I pull from these teachers, I give a Cheryl Ware combination, but it's like it's from a class that I watched in 2004. It's really hard to pull back from that long ago, but that's great. You're still so good. Yeah. So you have some exciting news, another kind of full circle moment for you. Tell us about this news that just came out this week about your next step as a teacher and director leader.
Damien Johnson [00:06:41]:
I'm so excited. I'm the new head of the Upper Division at the Washington School of Ballet, and it is a full circle moment, and to be invited back is just so special. And I've gone to chat with Julie Ken about it before she goes to Houston. And VMR Reyes and Christy Wyndham, who I am replacing, they've just been all so supportive. I mean, I'm just so full of gratitude. I'm so thankful that they're trusting me, and it is definitely full circle, but here we go.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:07:21]:
So once you left there, you started working at SAB from whenever you can, and then also being at CPYB, I wonder how your teaching has evolved and how you can now bring that back to kind of like, your home team, your home school.
Damien Johnson [00:07:37]:
Definitely. I mean, the syllabus at CPYB, I cannot say a single best thing about it. It's just been eye opening. And also I started dancing later, so I had to play catch up. You just kind of get thrown into the dance situation sometimes as a guy. I think I mentioned to this to you guys the last time we spoke. I didn't know that you start facing the bar. Thought you went straight away. Don't. I was wearing soccer shorts at 13 when I started, so just getting those basics from CPYB has been really special. And also the progression when you introduce the next steps and how you proceed. It's been so eye opening.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:08:30]:
Yeah. So tell us about this new job a little bit more. Maybe you could give us an idea of what you think the institution right now has really solidly in place, and what are some other ideas or goals that you have to implement in your new position?
Damien Johnson [00:08:51]:
Well, it's kind of like one of those things I keep thinking about when the organization has been going for so long, you don't want to go in and reinvent the wheel because it's clearly running and it's been successful. But I would definitely like to implement some of what I've learned while being away from there in the past two years, and I want to open it up to people of our generation. I feel like our generation is going through this change of people starting to take over leadership positions, and I want to share that with the organization because, as you guys know, we know some great people, so I definitely want to bring that into the organization. But, yeah, I like that.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:09:48]:
It is true. We're starting to see that, but it also feels a little bit like it's hard to get to that point, right? Because still our generation is seen as a hair young to be going into those roles, but really not. We've been out of dancing for years now. When can we start taking over things?
Damien Johnson [00:10:11]:
Years. It's also one thing that I've had to I've been nervous and it's all happening very quickly, but we have to trust the process, trust the work and the years that we put into ballet.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:10:33]:
That's so exciting. How did the opportunity come about? How did they approach you? Or did you know it was up? And you were like, hey.
Damien Johnson [00:10:41]:
I did not know that it was up. I spoke with Julie and they were doing a balancing program and she asked me if I would she knew that I was coming to see the show and then she asked if I would teach the company the Kennedy Center. And they were fantastic. And shortly after that, things kind of started moving and I went back again. I was invited to teach the professional training program during Sleeping Beauty just a couple of weeks ago. And then I still wasn't sure if I was ready to leave CPYB because I feel like there's still so much more to learn, always, everywhere. But once this opportunity presented itself, it's kind of something you just can't pass up.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:11:32]:
Oh, yeah, I get it.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:11:37]:
So, Damien, we wanted to have you on because we had an interesting request from one of our listeners. As the parent of a young dancing boy, this parent was wanting to hear more about male specific training because we've done lots of episodes about like, what summer program is going to be good for you? But there are just very specific needs and differences for young boys. So we wanted to just do an episode kind of centered on that idea and we thought, who better than to join us for this conversation than you? So, I mean, let's just start like, at the very beginning. Let's say you're a boy that's like ten years old. Is there a lot like, what goes into the early thoughts of your training? How serious does one need to a parent need to be at that given moment? Is it fine to just be at your well, I don't want to say Dolly Dinkle, your local studio and you're the only boy. How do we start out? What are some ideas for that moment?
Damien Johnson [00:12:41]:
Well, I think it's difficult for when the parents realize, oh, my gosh, my boy is really serious about this, when they can tell that they have a passion. I think that the parents being super supportive of the child and trusting this journey that's about to happen and allowing the child to be open to what is about to happen to them and rather than kind of pulling them back, letting them fully embrace it. I mean, it takes a village. But as long as the parents are on board and trusting and willing to accept this passion, that their child might have and also stretch their little foot seats, because we don't all have Michael Breeden's feet and the hamstrings.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:13:36]:
And so okay, so first thing, support your child, but also stretch their feet and their hamstrings. Okay, we got it.
Damien Johnson [00:13:47]:
And then after that, we kind of need to start talking about some conditioning, strength training, push ups, planks, ABS, pilates, just simple things to get them ready for lifting. One of my first injuries was a stress fracture in my back because, again, I started late. And then you start lifting girls, and you're doing this. I think that just those simple introducing those things early as well is really important.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:14:22]:
This is just making me think. And this can go for any child that's interested in dancing. I was just speaking with a mom recently that lives near me, and she was asking, like, oh, she'd asked me before where should I put my daughter? She's three years old. Where should she go to dance? Like, asking my advice. And I said, I don't think it really matters right now. Choose a place that's close to you. We have one place that's very close or a school that I would recommend that's much further away. So I guess my thought would be, when you are dealing with someone who's kind of starting a little bit later, would you still kind of give that sort of advice? And would you say start with ballet, or would you say start with jazz? When you're trying to pick the initial step to just dip the toe in, what are we thinking there?
Damien Johnson [00:15:06]:
I think it was helpful to me that I started with jazz. I was very resistant to ballet just because it gives you movement quality, it gives you musicality, it gives you a little bit of freedom, and then you can kind of hone it into ballet, because I think ballet also requires the child has to be really ready for it because it's so detailed, so intricate. But we know so many kids that started as jazz arenas that are fantastic ballerinas and dance male dancers.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:15:46]:
Right.
Damien Johnson [00:15:47]:
So I think that it does something helping getting that movement quality, if that's what they want to do.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:15:53]:
It might be a little bit easier of an entry point, maybe, for a boy. Right, yeah.
Damien Johnson [00:15:59]:
I was so resistant to ballet.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:16:01]:
I bet, yeah.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:16:02]:
These are all good points because I'm thinking because I started youngish. I mean, I started seven. I mean, I know some girls start when they're three, but seven is young for a boy. For a boy, yeah. Consider these. Like, many, many boys start quite late. So you're like, maybe jazz is an entry point, and you're thinking, we're starting conditioning stuff right away. Right. You got to do that push up. You got to do that crunch and applying totally. You got to figure it out fast. But what about a boy that does start younger? When would you start to think of those conditioning things as being an integral part of their ballet training.
Damien Johnson [00:16:41]:
I think as soon as those kind of growing pains start, when you can tell that they're growing and their body is changing, and that's when get a little wonky. Or I think that's king of when even like our boys at CPYB, when I've heard them talking about their growing pains and their knees, and I think kind of that just to compensate that pain.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:17:09]:
Yeah, I'm laughing in my head because I don't think I had growing pain. I'm so sure, I really have no memory of it. I don't think I ever was like, oh, wow, growth spurt. I think it was just like slow and steady wins the race.
Damien Johnson [00:17:26]:
When I started dancing, it was the summer before my 8th grade year, and I wore huskies like husky pants. And all of a sudden I just stretched out and my parents were like, who is this child? And it just happened so fast.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:17:45]:
That's such good advice. I remember a girl when I was younger that had a crazy growth spurt and she got really tall and then she just couldn't dance anymore because she was just like, I don't know what to do with my extra foot of length everywhere. And then she became really weak. So that's really a great thing that we can all do across the board, probably right. Is to work strength during that time.
Damien Johnson [00:18:10]:
And also just doming with the Fair Band when that stuff starts happening. That's what I've been trying to tell a lot of male dancers and dancers in general, that doming, that it's so important, you might not realize it until a lot later, but it really is. It helps so much.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:18:30]:
Foot exercises.
Damien Johnson [00:18:31]:
Yeah.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:18:32]:
Maybe it would have helped my arthritis if I had known that when I was younger.
Damien Johnson [00:18:36]:
Wait in your toe.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:18:38]:
Yeah. Both my big toes are just like you should see them now. They're just like flat as a freaking pancake. They don't bend at all.
Damien Johnson [00:18:46]:
You need yoga toes.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:18:50]:
Yeah, I bought yoga toes from your recommendation. They help. They do help. Well, something else that I think is different from your trajectory, how you're training, but it's still really important. And unfortunately, it's just universal, pretty much. Most boys, when they get found out at school, once they start their training, eventually where it gets out, and then they experience some level yeah, academic school, they experience some level of bullying. So how can parents kind of navigate that? Because that's going to be an inevitable part of a boy's training.
Damien Johnson [00:19:34]:
It definitely will. I remember that. I definitely remember that phase again. I think that as long as the parents are supportive of their students, their children, and support their son and his goal, but then there's always that little shift of like, oh, he's cool, he spends the day with girls, he lives girls. There's always this shift that happens. In the beginning, there's bullying, but then I think that a lot of studios only have one boy. But if there is a male teacher, someone that they can just talk to about these things that's supportive and trusting, like a role model, someone that they might see in themselves just to kind of have open conversations. Because like you said, it's inevitable. Every male dancer has gone through that phase and I think just having someone to talk to about it and give.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:20:33]:
Guidance is really yeah, I guess this is Snobby or Elitist, but I remember when you move away from your bullies, when you move to the school, there's just no better feeling. Sigh. And our guys, I was just thinking, that so true.
Damien Johnson [00:20:55]:
Every time I go back to Dallas, I'll run into people and they're like, oh, where do you live now? And I remember going back when I lived in London, they're like, London, England.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:21:06]:
I have a cool career.
Damien Johnson [00:21:09]:
They're like you dance there. But just that trust and the belief in the journey because it's always going to happen to everyone no matter what.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:21:24]:
I wonder too. One thing that comes to mind is a lot of times, and I know Michael's mentioned this before too, at your initial school, you might be the only boy there, or one of very few, of course. So how do you kind of deal with that? And then when do you as a parent think like, okay, my son is really invested in this and maybe it's time for me to try to find and that can be so hard, right? To find another sport. It could be really far away, it could be a lot of commuting, or it could be just sending them away away. When does that kind of come into play?
Damien Johnson [00:21:58]:
I think that when you can really tell that they are constantly excelling or even trying their hardest. And I think that the best way is to start with a summer program so they can meet other male dancers that will turn into being lifelong friends that are going through exactly the same thing. And it is scary. I remember my mom was like, you're not going away. And I was like, well, there were only two boys at my first dance school, and then the next there were three in Dallas. And then it gets to that point where you could tell when your child is seeking out, seeking more, and you've got to kind of dip the toe in the water, maybe with the summer program or another maybe slightly bigger dance school in your area as well.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:22:53]:
Yeah, summer program. I remember being so blown away that there could be so many boys in a class. When I first went I think I was twelve when I first went to CPYB and I was just like, wait, I have people that share my dreams that are like me.
Damien Johnson [00:23:09]:
My second year at SAB, I think we had 41 boys in advance. And I was like, Wait, what? It was like the biggest group ever. And it was just being able to openly talk and stretch together and know that you're growing and going through changes and insecure you're away from your family. I think just having that open dialogue and conversations with either other students or teachers I think is really important for youth of you.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:23:44]:
Do you guys feel like when you had that AHA moment of like, look at all these other boys that are like me, that want the same thing as me? Did that make you then be like, okay, I see a path forward for myself in this. Was that one of those AHA moments for you that maybe then would make a student want to transfer to a more serious school? Because they're like, okay, I really want this now?
Damien Johnson [00:24:05]:
I think so. Michael, what do you think? I think there were also some insecurities because you're like the big fish. Yes. I was going to say that you do go through those moments of having a bit of insecurity, but that insecurity somehow pushes you when you're like, wow.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:24:28]:
And it is inevitable. You have to learn sooner or later. I mean, when I was twelve, my first class at CPYB, I stood across from the bar from Tyler Engel and I was just like, well, guess I'll die. I Sean. I'll never be as good as this boy.
Damien Johnson [00:24:43]:
My first one was Ben Griffith. And I looked across at Ben Griffith and Lucy Inn and Chris. I was like, what?
Michael Sean Breeden [00:24:53]:
As the kids say these days, the technique was techniquing.
Damien Johnson [00:25:00]:
And it's so funny, all the kids, because you see, I love when I have a group of boys as well. They all like, snap for each other. It's like everyone's supporting each other. And one thing that like, Suzanne would tell us, you have to be your own cheerleader. And I tell the boys, youth got to snap for yourself. I see you doing it for everyone else, but give yourself a little snap as well.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:25:25]:
Sweet. I mean, I think I remember that too. Going to San Francisco Ballet for the first summer and being like, oh wow, there are so many good people, and they're coming from really big schools with this good training. And then that made me want to go away in the year and work hard to kind of move, not feel as insecure the next summer. So I can absolutely see how you guys had a similar experience. And so then I wonder too about partnering. So you've already kind of brought up working on starting that strength training as soon as possible. I guess in some ways, if you're the one boy at your school, you're getting a crash course because you got to partner like, every single gal, right. And that's good, right? That's a good experience. But what if that's something that your school doesn't offer? And at what age should we be like, okay, we need to as a parent, my son needs to start doing this.
Damien Johnson [00:26:22]:
Yeah. I say again, the sooner the better, because it is just such a part of male dancing, and the sooner the better. The sooner you can get that feeling of pushing a girl forward and making her look her best and not being shy, or as soon as you can get the distance and how to put down properly. Because it is so much to learn. And there's always going to be a girl that will let you have it, the sooner the better, and the more conscious you are of how.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:27:06]:
There was a dancer in my very first partnering class at CVY. She was twelve and a prodigy. Or maybe she was younger than me, she might have been ten or eleven, but like, prodigy CPYB, for those who don't know, famously always houses a large number of what they call barn babies. Kids that are I mean, is the barn still in use?
Damien Johnson [00:27:29]:
It's opening back up for the summer. When I first came here, I only taught at the barn. We had renovations, but it will be back open for the summer. And it's just so special.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:27:43]:
Right? The barn is part of, like, CPYB lore. Marcia Del Weary, she came to start this school from scratch, from nothing. And so the classes originally were only in a barn. So these prodigies, they were called barn babies. So this dancer who, you know was a barn baby, I'll tell you who it is later, but she gets put with me because we're both little. I was twelve, and let's say she's ten or eleven, and she turns around and kind of glares at me and it's like, are you good? I need to know if you're good before we do this.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:28:17]:
Oh no, that was your first class.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:28:21]:
I was like, I think so. I don't know. I don't know about partnering. So you're right. A girl will come for you because they don't want to be dropped.
Damien Johnson [00:28:30]:
Totally. And then also going back to the strength training, girls can tell. Do you remember that culmination of Sav? You'd be in opposite corners and you'd like, PKR, vest and run. And once girls realize that you have muscles and you can press and go, can I go with you? I want to go with you. Can you do? Press me. Press me once. They like that's.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:28:53]:
So true. You can have an advantage if you start Damien's strength training early, you can be the one that gets picked.
Damien Johnson [00:29:02]:
There you go. There you go. That's true.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:29:06]:
But what about just for regular for other purposes, like male virtuosity, ballet? It's super gendered. So it's not even just yeah, partnering thing, you know?
Damien Johnson [00:29:17]:
Yeah, but it's true.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:29:19]:
I mean, we just do different steps. So what about totally. That component of training, how important is it to do to like, to be in a class where you get to do double toys with other young boys, that sort of thing.
Damien Johnson [00:29:33]:
Yeah, I think it is also because there's also I found there was a fear of doing those steps, especially on stage and in tight. Again, looking at the lights in front of you, knowing that you have to do a tour at the end of the ballet. I think, again, the sooner the better, to help get over that fear. And just making it very comfortable is like part of your everyday. Because I didn't do my first one for a long time and I was scared.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:30:08]:
Some of us never get over that fear. Some of us never get over it.
Damien Johnson [00:30:13]:
It's terrifying. And then doing a menage with a double soda box and I say the more that you just kind of constantly do those steps, the better.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:30:24]:
I think about this interview we did with Christine Shivchenko all the time because it just was so bonkers to me. I had just seen her Key Tree debut, and of course Ketri famously finishes with 32 Fues. And if I were doing my Key Tree debut, I would just be like thinking about that the whole 1st 3 hours of the ballet. She just came out there and murdered the fuetes. Like fuetes found dead in a ditch. They were so good. And I asked her about it in the interview, she was like, well, that's my safe place. I had a teacher that was so adamant about being able to do it at such a young age that now I have it in my back pocket. I was more nervous about creating a character. I'm like, am I good actor? Am I going to Arc? And so I think you're totally right. I wish someone had bullied me into doing better double stories. When I was like ten, I think.
Damien Johnson [00:31:22]:
We went to The Rock together. I stayed at the Rock Park in Beth AB and she was twelve, and I remember her doing what? And it's just the younger, the more and more comfortable that you get with it so that you know that it's there. They give this step bond you to the front and the center. Plea relax. They say bond you to and these kids, they do it every day. They promenade in second and they don't every single day turn one whole three whole four and then all of a sudden you see them just do it. And everyone's kind of upset about it in the beginning, but you see like within a year they all just do it.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:32:09]:
It probably doesn't hurt as bad when you start that young. And then you can just do it, except right when your hips are giving out later in life. And you're right. This is making me think from a teacher perspective. As someone who's taught in schools where often there's maybe just one or two boys, I would try to offer some men's steps at the end of class. How can a. Teacher support a one or two boy in their school situation in terms of like and then I'm thinking, too, like, if the class I was or if the school I was teaching at didn't have partnering at the end of class, can I offer that in some ways? How could a teacher kind of pepper that in and support these male dancers as well?
Damien Johnson [00:32:54]:
Definitely what I try to do is especially if it's a group, if there are a few boys and then there are girls that put on their point shoes. So I'll try to give a couple of steps in and then again, at the end of the class, do a Tomb Potter Ballet double tour and thesis and then keep a couple of girls and just let them promenade them around, because that's hard at first. I think just kind of adding that into the normal class, if there's time for it, is really helpful. And then a lot of times for the boys it is and they clap for them when they're doing their thesis or they want to support them. But yeah, definitely if there's time that allows it, I think I'm adding a little time to make them also feel special.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:33:48]:
Maybe before we wrap up, maybe we could just list some men's programs that you really admire in the nation, places that you think that maybe have specific catering specifically to young boys needs. Definitely dancers?
Damien Johnson [00:34:07]:
Well, I would definitely say CPYB and the Washington School of Ballet. Also Houston and Harrod. I think that there are a lot of places where that do focus and there's a camaraderie of boys. I think that there are quite a few, I think just doing that research and just a little computer time and googling because sometimes it's even nearby. There's this school in South Bend, Indiana. He is fantastic. And I went and talked there, and what he does with these boys is just fantastic.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:35:02]:
What's the name of the school?
Damien Johnson [00:35:05]:
It is Youth Hole Dance Theater. And he's fantastic. And do you know, also, one of our closest friends, Ted Seymour at Ballet Chicago, is doing so much wonderful stuff with guys as well.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:35:20]:
So as a parent, when you're looking for a school for your son, if you called them, what would be the things you would say to ask, like, what classes are offered? How many boys are there? Things like that.
Damien Johnson [00:35:33]:
Right. I would definitely ask how many boys are there? Is there time made for male specific classes? Is there some sort of conditioning class? And maybe to get on like a contact list of parents of other male students that are already there and just hear kind of what their feedback is and how it's worked for them, I think is really important. And again, having that relationship with other parents going through the same things and boys going through the same thing.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:36:06]:
Totally. Yeah.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:36:08]:
Well, Damien, thank you so much for this beautiful episode. If I ever apparent I would feel safer in the hands of Damien Johnson.
Damien Johnson [00:36:18]:
That means a lot to me.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:36:21]:
Thank you so much for your time, and we'll definitely have you back on anytime you want to chat.
Damien Johnson [00:36:26]:
We always anytime.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:36:28]:
And hopefully we'll be seeing you in DC soon.
Damien Johnson [00:36:31]:
Yeah, you sure will.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:36:39]:
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