(355) Adji Cissoko of Alonzo King LINES Ballet, LIVE from the Vail Dance Festival
Photo by Christopher Duggan
Adji Cissoko is an artist of striking elegance and daring, whether as a performer or choreographer. With Cissoko’s selection of 2023’s Artist-in-Residence, Festival audiences will be treated to ample amounts of both. For this live recording of the ‘Conversations On Dance’ podcast, Adji will talk about her years at the Vail Dance Festival past and what the opportunities as Artist-in-Residence mean for her creative output this year.
This episode was recorded live on August 1st, 2023 at the Manor Vail Lodge. Conversations on Dance at the Vail Dance Festival is generously underwritten by the Town of Vail.
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TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was generated automatically. It’s accuracy may vary.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:00:13]:
Good morning, everyone, and thank you for returning to Conversations on Dance here at the Vale Dance Festival. My name is Michael Sean Breeden.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:00:28]:
And I'm Rebecca king Ferraro. And we're so glad to have you all joining us this morning, and we're so glad to have Adji here with us. It's been a while since we've spoken with you, so we look forward to kind of catching up and seeing what you've been up to.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:00:40]:
But we would like to do a little rewind in case anyone missed our episode with Adji in 2019. So maybe we could just learn a little bit about your personal background in dance, maybe what some of your early employment opportunities were like. How did you get started in dance?
Adji Cissoko [00:00:56]:
Hi. So happy to be here. Good to see you all. My name is Adji Cissoko. I'm originally from Munich, Germany. My mom is German. My dad is from Senegal, west Africa. I grew up in Munich. And my dad plays the chorus, which is a Senegalese string instrument, sounds like the harp. So he was playing and practicing every day, and I was just, like, not even walking and moving already around. So I think the connection to dance was established really early for me to start more professional. Dance actually came out of a visit to the school doctor, which is more common in Germany. Before you join elementary school, they do a test to make sure you're ready to go to school, and you had to draw a snake and say something at the same time. And apparently I was struggling, so the doctor told my parents, in order to improve coordination and spatial awareness, it would be really good for me to dance. So my parents were like, oh, that's great. She loves to dance. Anyway, so they put me into jazz dance and ballet once a week. And I loved it. I loved both of it. But my ballet teacher told my parents after every class, oh, she needs to do this professionally. She's so talented. And my parents were really hesitant to push me in any kind of way, so they kept saying, no, this is just a hobby. This is fine. But my ballet teacher was very persistent, and eventually my parents let me audition for the Ballet Academy Munich. It's very hard to get in, but it is completely free. And once you're in, if you pass the exams every year, you can just grow and grow and move up from one level to the next. And I got in. I loved it. I stayed there, and it was first once a week, then twice, then three times, and then every day. And the last two years are actually part of university. So you do get a diploma in dance, which is very helpful. So I ended up having that as well. You had to decide if you wanted to drop out of normal school for that, which I didn't quite want to do. So the last two years I did dance all day, and then at 05:00 p.m., I ran and did evening school. So I graduated from that, and then I moved to New York through an SAB summer course, and then I took a class at Abt, and then JKO offered me a scholarship for their round year program, which I had to decide really quickly if I wanted to take. I came back from the summer course and then had two weeks to be like, oh, am I moving to New York? And my parents didn't have the money to help me out with that. But then my grandparents and my teacher actually helped me make this dream come true. I moved to New York and danced at JKO for one year, auditioned everywhere, which is actually easy because a lot of big companies come to New York to hold auditions. So every weekend everybody gets a number and hopes to get the job. And then I ended up getting a job with the National Ballet of Canada in Toronto. So I moved to Canada and danced with that company for three and a half years. Very classical company, big company, 70 people. I enjoyed it very much. And then after a while, I started getting really nice opportunities. So then you're alone on stage, which was great, and I was like, oh, I want more of that. But in a big company, you often have to wait a long time before it happens again. So I was kind of ready to dance more. And I joined Alonzo King Lines Ballet in 2014, which is quite perfect for me because it's a smaller company, twelve people, and Alonzo King, the director, really just choreographs on his dances. So everything that you have will be used and valued and played with. And so it was a good fit for me, and I'm still there.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:05:08]:
Let's talk a little bit about the style that you trained in. What was your initial training like? And then I remember last time we spoke with you, you went to SAB and you kind of took to that style. You were interested in that. Tell us a little bit about that.
Adji Cissoko [00:05:19]:
So my school in Germany, the Ballet Academy in Munich, was very Russian Vaganava style training. And so I did that for eleven years. And my first kind of encounter with something else was when I went to SAB to do the summer course there. And I remember the first few days, I was just like, oh my gosh, I can't do this. Everything was double the speed, triple the speed, point shoes from the bar, different techniques of spotting front and holding fingers. I was just very overwhelmed. But at the same time, there was also something fun about it. And I remember by the end of the summer course, I was like, oh, this could actually work also. So just gaining more opportunities and just broaden your vision so it's not so, like this is the one style. There's so much out there. So it was actually a really good experience for me and it challenged me and it helped me move faster. Yeah.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:06:18]:
I want to talk for 1 second. You mentioned exams briefly, and that is something that, as far as I'm aware, doesn't happen anywhere in America. I could be wrong, but it's quite rare. What is that like? Is that just something that you grow up with so it feels normal or is it stressful every year?
Adji Cissoko [00:06:36]:
Oh, it's stressful. It's twice a year. And so basically these exams are more like all the directors and teachers come, they observe the class and then now they also do like, written papers and all of that.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:06:55]:
What is part of the written exam? Like dance history?
Adji Cissoko [00:06:58]:
Yeah. And music. And we did train in like we had character, we had modern, we had classical, so we had different areas.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:07:08]:
Were you interested in any of those other areas or was it always just like ballet point shoes for you?
Adji Cissoko [00:07:13]:
I liked them all. Yeah, I really enjoyed them all. I even loved character dance because he would explain us, oh, this dance is from the Ukraine. This dance is from here. And then you had to be a completely different character. And I loved it. And you had to play with the rhythm and yeah, so no, I loved it.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:07:32]:
Did you ever think about staying in Europe or were you always kind of New York centric?
Adji Cissoko [00:07:38]:
I think for me, to be honest, I never had this really clear vision. I just stumbled into dance. I didn't even grow up saying I want to be a ballerina. I just stumbled into that and I enjoyed it. So I kept going. And my parents were actually the ones that had nothing to do with dance. And they never had gone to a ballet. And they even kept asking me, are you sure you want to do this? It's now four times a like, no, I'm still really liking it. And so I think I stayed. And then when it was time to start thinking about the future, my director, Constance Bernard, who really played a really big role in my future, and Path, she always had this vision of me in the States, and I think it had to do with my height. I was just always tall and also my skin color. And she was worried that it would maybe be tricky finding a lot of opportunities in Germany, and so she was like, oh, I see you in So. And I was I just and then even when I was training at JKO, a lot of my friends had this clear dream, like, Abt. Abt. And I was always like, yeah, I mean, I love Abt. I love am where I go I have to feel it out. And then if I have a good sense I remember auditioning sometimes I would go I went, for example, to Boston, and I felt it out, and I went to the National Ballet of Canada and I felt it out. And I feel like I felt like a good sensation, like being in their studios, and the people were nice, and it just felt right. So then when I got the job offer, I was like, yeah, that's it.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:09:22]:
I wonder, tell us a little bit about those early years. So you're just joining National Ballet of Canada, first time in a company. What were some of the things you were dancing and then some of your first opportunities that you got?
Adji Cissoko [00:09:31]:
Yeah, my first ballet that I danced was Serenade, which they showed in a little excerpt of it the other day. And I loved it. It's really the best piece to start with because the quarter ballet, which is your first position when you join a company, is so important, and it's huge and it's magical, and you become this unity, and you're all there together, and it was great. I loved it so much. Company life isn't easy. You come from a school where all eyes are on you, and then you're in a big company and suddenly you just have a lot of more responsibilities. You have to make sure you read the schedule. I missed a rehearsal my first week because I didn't read the schedule correctly. And people in class are not giving you corrections. It's just like a warm up. You have to make sure you work hard. You have to make sure if you need to practice something, you go next. It's just it changes and you have to really grow up. But I really enjoyed it. And then my first opportunities were lilac fairy and I did Chroma and Elites of Compassions. And those kind of things were just like, oh, I like this. Rather than being in the court of ballet with so many people and trying to be exactly like the person in front of you, when I am the tallest and longest and quite different, but yet trying to move like them. And I think I moved a little bit. Not as big as I could. I was holding back, and I was even, like, holding back my height, I think, just subconsciously.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:11:03]:
So, yeah, you should never try to fit in in any sort. That's what your uniqueness is. Just what makes you so special.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:11:11]:
I'm wondering, you have this amazing job. It's a company that's world renowned, respected by every ballet dancer. Making the choice to leave fairly early. Three and a half years is a significant amount of time, but still early. How did you make that decision? How did you come to that decision that you needed to go somewhere where you would feel more comfortable living in your own individuality.
Adji Cissoko [00:11:37]:
Yeah. Every year with the company, you have a talk with the director. And I talked to Karen Kane, and she really from the moment I joined, she was always really looking out for me, which I appreciated. She knew me from the De Lausanne competition. I had done prior, and so we had a good relationship, and I think a very honest relationship. And one of the questions she had asked me was, like, where do you see yourself going forward? I'm like, I definitely want to move up, because I really like these opportunities. And she's like, I see that for you too. And I am not really the core person. But at the same time, if she looks at the year program, she sees me here and then again there. And she also felt kind of like, I don't want you to stay, and then regret waiting around, waiting around, even if there is a promotion or whatever. It right. And so then she was like, I just wish there was somebody that would just work with all of that you have, because she said, I feel like we are not. And I was like, I feel that a little bit. And she actually mentioned lines. She's like, I love Alonzo. I feel like that would be such a good fit. And I knew about Alonzo and lines too. In fact, I had taken a class with them when I was still in school. It was like a whole day. And I was so overwhelmed. They had to improvise, they had to move so different. I was like, oh, I don't recognize this. I don't like it. But I had obviously grown up, and I was more mature, and I was just ready to do more. So when she mentioned it again, I was I was I think we were on a little break, and I was in Germany, and Lyons Ballet was in France on tour, so I actually was able to join them in France. I remember it was like, just squeezed in there. They had a show. I arrived in the morning, didn't even take class, just went on stage and worked with Alonzo personally. And it was great. It was like he just started creating on me and making up phrases and movement and then let me do it, and I just went for it. I really didn't have any big expectations. I was just there. And I think that was perfect because I wasn't doubting anything. He was like, spell your name with movement. And I just went for it. And I feel like in the past, I would have been like, what? So it was challenging. Like, at one point, he had me put on my point shoes and face upstage, and it was all dark, so I was just falling around and I said, oh, I'm so sorry. And he's like, no, I actually want to hire you. Can you start tomorrow? And I'm like, no, I'm in the middle of a season. I have a contract. But he's like, oh, well, I know Karen. And so they talked it out, and I was able to leave kind of midseason after Nutcracker and join Lines.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:14:23]:
That conversation with Karen is maybe not one that's very common with artistic directors. It can be very common. It's hard, right, to tell a dancer, I don't see you here. And so I just wonder how you receive that. It sounds like it was a very positive conversation, but it could also be a little disappointing.
Adji Cissoko [00:14:40]:
Yeah. I think especially when you talk about things after the fact, it's so much easier right. To see it from the I remember, even though I agreed, still hearing it, like, oh, shit, she thinks that too. And she thinks that I might be wasting my time. That's big. So I was sad, and my boyfriend and I, at the time, we had just decided to maybe move in together, and we were about to sign, like, yeah, Elise. And then I told him, oh, this talk now makes me rethink, and maybe it's not the best idea. I mean, Karen was she know, just try a few things. And I was like, So do I have to leave if I don't find no, no. Like, it's really like, it wasn't like, you need to go. It wasn't in that sense, but still, like right. Yeah.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:15:38]:
So, I mean, that's a pretty abrupt start to company life. I'm presuming you moved. Then right away, you weren't doing a plane commute to work. So what was that like? Kind of just dealing with not just the upheaval of transitioning to a new company, but a new city, like, wholly new life.
Adji Cissoko [00:15:59]:
Yeah. Good thing I had done it before because I left my home in Germany when I was 18, moved to New York. Big city, overwhelming. And then I moved to Toronto, completely new again. So I think I wasn't as worried about San Francisco. I was actually kind of excited. I did find an airbnb first, and then I thought, okay, once I'm there, I figure the rest out. And Lines was really helpful as well. I didn't love San Francisco in the very beginning because I didn't know the city. So I went kind of to very sketchy areas, and I took the wrong buses, and I was like, oh, gosh. And it was raining, so it took me a second, about a few weeks, and then I discovered the beautiful places, and now I'm in Was. I think the toughest for me for the transition was just joining Lines and realizing how different they were. My idea at first was to stay for one year and then move on to maybe more classical stuff. Like, I just wanted to get the experience to see what it's like. Obviously, I enjoyed it and stayed. But I remember the first few weeks, I wanted to cry every day just because Alonzo kept saying, there's more, there's more. And I was like, Where? I'm doing what you're saying? Because I was so used to just do what you're told, and he wanted to do what you're told, and then what are you saying through the movement? So let's say he tells us the movement is this and this. Then I would just do this and this. And what he was interested in is like, what does this fist mean to you? How do you want to hold it? And then how does this wrap? Does it wrap? Is it soft? Is it maybe another people's hand? There's so many options, and these options at first get really overwhelming until you embrace them and think it's like, wow, so it never gets boring because every day I'm going to approach it in a different way and it's going to keep it interesting. And you're just like 100% present in the work rather than just like, oh, here we go, I've done this ballet, and all the steps kind of like zoning out. So it's just a different movement.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:18:06]:
I wonder if that's kind of a parallel with like you were saying before. You were just trying to sort of fit in before, and now you have this freedom. So how did you kind of start to shed that feeling of wanting to fit in and embracing your beautiful self?
Adji Cissoko [00:18:22]:
I think, like, within after a week, it goes really fast with lines because you're constantly asked to do that. So without realizing, suddenly you really ask yourself, what do I like? Oh yeah, this. And then you do something and you realize, my arms have never been that far away from me. They have always held them there. And then you start liking this, and then you start finding length in other and you're like, wow. So it was like, yeah, I just had these realizations throughout. And the thing is, it doesn't stop after a year. I did actually get a contract with Dresden. After six months of joining Line, suddenly I had an offer from a company that I thought I would want to join because it's classical again. And then I just couldn't accept it. I was like, there's so much to learn here. There's so much growth and expansion that I can just now leave again. And that just happened year after year after year. And now it's like my 10th season.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:19:21]:
I'm curious, the company is smaller. What kind of influence the other dance had on you? Because I'm sure that they're all embracing their own individuality in that same way. It is a very unique company. Nobody looks like anyone else. And were you kind of emulating or being influenced by the others in the room as well? Like, not just definitely.
Adji Cissoko [00:19:43]:
Definitely. Because it is such a small company. Alonzo is the person in the front and in the studio, but then you're watching others, right? And then everybody, because we are like, a family, we give each other so much information. And so I had people that had been there for over ten years work with me on the side and feed me information. It was so helpful. And sometimes I would be also frustrated because the information that they would give me is like, just kind of internally. And then there was like a picture reference, and I'm like, oh, God. And then they were like, don't worry, it's going to just take a few years to get it. I'm very German. I want to just do it right now and specific. And so it's just a completely different way of working. Yeah, but yeah, in the end, I couldn't be more grateful, and now I'm the one giving these people this advice and I'm like, don't worry, it took me years as well.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:20:44]:
Let's talk about improv in a little bit because you've told us that that's a big part of Alonzo's process. And for us, we can't think of anything worse than having like, you're saying you want someone to tell you exactly what to do and then you execute, and that's your comfort zone. So what was that like for you?
Adji Cissoko [00:21:02]:
Yeah, definitely. And he loves to play these little games where he puts you all in the corner and then he's like, oh, now just move across the floor and think there's maybe fire under your feet or in the middle, something happens and you get swallowed. I'm just making this up, literally, things like this. And if you're not used to that, that can be a bit scary because you have to just go for it with not knowing the outcome, which we are just not used in these other companies. And I remember one of my first shows, actually, my first show in New York with lines, there was a ballet called Constellation, and it has these big light panels that people carry and shine with. And so one of the roles that I was given was improvving from stage right to stage left with just one thing that was said is like, once you get to center, you get lower. That's it. And people are like, shining light above you. And so I'm like, I'm obviously not improving it's my first show in New York, so I planned out a whole scenario, had all the steps set, and I felt really good about it. And so I did the show. And then after Alonzo came to me and he's like, what was that? That was not improv. That was completely structured and set, and it's not working. And tomorrow you need to improv. So I was like, oh my gosh, now I can't I can't set anything. He knows. So it was like one of the scariest things because I just stepped on stage. I'm like, here I am, I don't know what's going to happen. And then my body just started moving, and it was amazing because I can't even tell you what I did, it happened. And at one point, I was on the other side, and then after, he was like, There we go. And it felt amazing because I just could shut off my thinking brain and just listen to the more internal and let something else speak, which I wasn't used to. And that's how I really started learning about my own. I would improv, and suddenly I would do these really weird things. I'm like, wow, my body really wants to speak like this interesting. And rather than being like, that's odd, I was starting to embrace it. Okay, I hear you.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:23:14]:
I want to keep going in this improv direction. We talked a little bit about improv yesterday with musicians as well. And improv can mean just go out and do what you want, know four counts of eight. But it could also mean other things, like there's structure to the improv. What are some of the ways that Alonzo might structure improv?
Adji Cissoko [00:23:32]:
Section? Like, most of the ballets are really not like, people sometimes ask, is this all improv? And we're like, no, it's not. But because we have so much freedom in the structure, you do make choices. So it's different than improv from just like free for all. But you can make choices within the vocabulary that you start learning by dancing with lines. You start learning to what are some of the movements that are just like, make sense for the work. So it's so hard to explain, but again, even when you have certain let's say the phrase is an eight count of hand hand up up. You still have to do hand hand up up. But you might be able to say, I'm doing hand up up, or I'm doing hand up up. So you can play with timing. You can make choices on music. You can make it also, maybe he didn't specify the head. So maybe people start looking different ways why they do it, or they do it at different levels, so it all becomes different, and yet we are still staying true to the structure.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:24:40]:
So interesting. Do you ever get feedback from him that's like but not that especially in.
Adji Cissoko [00:24:46]:
The early days, because I would say I wasn't as familiar with the line vocabulary yet. And so when we could make choices like, I remember one time I put this really big Alice jump in there, and I thought it was great, but because it just didn't make sense and that's hard to explain, but where I put the jump, it was more intimate and it stayed more grounded. And suddenly I decided it didn't fit together. So then it didn't make sense, and now I understand that. But back then, I was just like, oh, but I can do this. So it's less showy. It's like the work is just not about, look what I can do, but more like, I'm inviting you to join me in my world. So it's just a deeper level.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:25:36]:
Right. Let's switch gears and talk a little bit about the Vale Dance Festival. What was your first time here? I'm assuming it was with lines.
Adji Cissoko [00:25:44]:
Yeah, I came with lines years ago, and then we came again 2019, I guess.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:25:49]:
Right.
Adji Cissoko [00:25:52]:
So this is really the first time that I'm here by myself. And when we came in the past, we wouldn't be here for the whole festival. We came, we performed and we left. Then the last time we were here, we had that collaboration with New York City Ballet where half of the company, including myself, it was six of us and six of them would come together and build a piece. Was it six or was it and.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:26:20]:
That was an alonzo piece.
Adji Cissoko [00:26:21]:
It was an alonzo piece, yeah. Personal element. And we actually after that creation, that was for Vail, the company did that piece a lot, so it really became one of our important pieces. Wow.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:26:33]:
It was so great.
Adji Cissoko [00:26:34]:
We love that.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:26:35]:
How is this experience different, being here as your own artist? You're also the artist in residence this year, which is very important. So how is that different for you this year?
Adji Cissoko [00:26:43]:
Yeah, just really it's like I'm on my own. And I think the biggest difference is really that I'm in multiple pieces by other choreographers. I'm also creating my own piece, which I've never done before, and I'm here for the whole chunk of time. So it really feels like I'm moving into Vale and I am just working all day every day. So it's a lot. I'm already exhausted. And yesterday I went to bed. I'm like, I'm so excited to sleep. And then I realized it's really just the beginning of the festival, but it's great. And you are with all these other people from all these different companies, and they're all extraordinary. So I'm in class and I'm just amazed and just really grateful. I told somebody in the center yesterday, I can't believe this is happening. Like, we're all here on stage and it just brings everybody together and we're just sharing our passion for dance and creating art, and that's really special. And you don't have a lot of places where this can really happen, and not just for a day, but for a period of time.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:27:52]:
So did you say this is your very first choreographic opportunity?
Adji Cissoko [00:27:56]:
Well, basically I've started choreographing. I mean, through lines, you start building that skill. But during the pandemic was really when I kind of dug into that. And I choreographed a little piece for Ballet X, like over zoom and on just maybe a person or two, just like a solo. But I've never choreographed on myself last year. Last summer, I got the Tuaman Fellowship through NYU, which included me going to New York and creating a piece, but again, I created on others. And then I improv the little section. So I didn't really because I kind of wasn't ready. I was kind. Of scared because I never judge when I choreograph on others. But then when it was about me, I started being like, why do you do this? Oh, this doesn't look I went back to that and I was like, no, I can't do it. And then this year, here we are, I'm doing it, and I'm actually really excited. Yeah, we'll see what happens. My cousin, who plays the chorus that I mentioned, that my dad also plays, it's an instrument that has been in my family for 72 generations. It goes way, way back. My ancestors in Senegal used to play it for the kings, and it was very important to keep traditions and stories alive, and king passed on. And so my last name, Sisako, is very well known in Senegal or West Africa in general for being griots. And grios translated means storytellers. So that's just it's. My family like, you are born into it. And so I am already a storyteller. And it's funny to me because I'm not playing the chorus. I mean, I'm learning now, but it's not something that I pursued. But I pursued dance, and through dance, I tell stories. So it's just like, yeah, makes sense. Yeah. So now I get to create, and I'm calling my piece Grio. So I think it's going to be fantastic having him here, too.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:30:00]:
How did you decide that you would just create on you? What was that conversation like with Damien? Was there an idea that maybe you would work with other dancers?
Adji Cissoko [00:30:07]:
Well, he just said, and you build a piece. And I said, oh, how many dance do I get? And he's like, Actually, it's going to be on you. Okay. So there you go. Okay.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:30:19]:
I'm curious. A lot of choreographers are older, and maybe your physical capabilities lessen over time, naturally, but you are still obviously very much in your prime. How much does your own physical ability influence what you are putting on others? Because you can do this step so fully. It's something like, okay, obviously we know these legs go up. You're like, oh, that feels fine on me, so I'll put it on you. Or, how are you interacting with the dancers in that kind of relationship?
Adji Cissoko [00:30:49]:
Not at all. Actually, that's why I've been getting asked a lot about choreographing for competitions like solos. And I say immediately, no, because I know it requires legs and tricks, and it's just not how I want to work. And I don't plan ahead. I don't have everything set up before I choreograph. I need to be in the room. I need to feel the dancers, I need to work with them. And then I just build, and it just kind of happens more natural and organic, and it's specifically for these dance kind of how alonzo would also work. So it's like, yes, I'm giving movement, but I'm so open to see what the dancers make out of it. And then it starts shifting and crystallizing. And I think that was the tricky challenge for choreographing on my own, where I know what I can do, but I didn't want to approach it from that way, where I'm just like, oh, let's show I can know. So it had to be like, if I hear the music, what is my body doing? And then I surprised myself because it's so much less. It's less it's feeling the music and then letting my body speak. Because if I want to stay true to the storytelling, I can't think, oh, this step is good, or this, I have to go deeper and I have to see, what does the music do to my storytelling? That isn't necessarily my goal, is not that the audience is like, oh, I got this story. This is what she said. She went here and then this happened. It's more like they felt something. So I just want to have a feeling.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:32:25]:
How do you feel like Alonzo has impacted your voice as a choreographer? And how do you feel like you want to also veer off in your own path to to create your own voice as well?
Adji Cissoko [00:32:38]:
Yeah, I guess hugely impacted because without realizing, I'm like, wow, even when I choreograph, I'm so similar to how I work, how I go in the room, how I show, how I pick things from the people. So that is very similar. And I don't know if I would have always choreographed like that. Who knows, right? But, yeah, creating my own, I mean, I'm not really thinking of Alonzo, so I don't know. I'm sure because my movement language is similar or has influenced by him, so I'm sure it's there. But I think the thing about Alonzo is, like, he just helped me find myself. So how you see me at night, that's me. And so how you see me in my choreography, that's me. So it's just like there's not really a just I am still finding and have found certain me.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:33:28]:
Yeah, well, we love watching you in Alonzo's ballet, but something I'm really excited to see you in is the White Swan Potato, which is going to be sort of like a full circle moment for you. Like, classicism is in your bones. So tell us about how that's been going and what night will we be able to see you perform that?
Adji Cissoko [00:33:46]:
Yeah, I'm so excited for it, but also so nervous because when people ask me in interviews, what's something that you may be missing from the classical repertoire? I always say white swamp. Because I loved Swan Lake, I did get to dance with the national many times, and then I even went back after being with Lions to guest with the National Ballet a few years later to do Swan Lake. But I've never gotten to do White Swan Par, and I love that part of it so much. And so it wasn't originally when I talked to Damien, I was just doing dying swan. And then later on, at one point, he was like, oh, good news. We thought it would be also so great if you did White Swan par with Ben Rodison, who is with the national belly of Canada. And I was like, okay. And it was that mixture of really excited, but also like, wow, this is going to be hard because I've just never done it. And so, yeah, we just started working on it. And I'm performing it on Saturday, I believe. Oh, no, Friday. Friday is my swan. Yes, I'm doing it on Friday. And, yeah, it's going to be well, the tricky challenge I have with these very classical and original repertory to like, how can I still bring myself into it? Because that's all I've been working on, right? Like, finding myself, finding what makes me me. And so I don't want to completely lose that. But yet there's a completely different structure, so I want to stay true to that structure as well, and the technique and everything that's required. So it's just like finding that and getting used to your partner and yeah, figuring it out. So I'm just going step by step, day by day, and, yeah, I will be doing White Swans.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:35:27]:
Before we started recording, we were talking briefly about the potato that you and Calvin Royal III did on opening night. That was just so gorgeous. Tell us a little bit. In true veil fashion, it was kind of like thrown together slightly at the last minute, which just makes it all the more impressive.
Adji Cissoko [00:35:40]:
So tell us what that was like. First of all, we were both the happiest when we found out we couldn't be dancing together, because when I was at JKO, he was at JKO, and so we started becoming friends. I always saw him rehearsing next door, and so we became friends. And all these years we've been saying, oh, it would be so nice if we could dance together, because we never got the chance. And then here we are. Vale made it happen. And I think Epilogue Power was also the perfect fit because he had done it at Abt. I had done a version at Lines, and so we just kind of got together, saw where the differences were, felt each other, had a few rehearsals and then did it on stage. But it felt so natural. It felt like we were supposed to dance together in this movement. So it was great. Flawless.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:36:30]:
It was beautiful.
Adji Cissoko [00:36:31]:
Thank you.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:36:31]:
Well, we can't wait to see you perform throughout the festival. I think now we have a little bit of time to open the floor to audience questions.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:36:39]:
I have a mic coming around.
Adji Cissoko [00:36:43]:
Go ahead. This is a very different question, but I can't resist asking the story behind that magnificent photograph of yours that graces the poster and how it was accomplished and how much time it took to do it and those sorts of things. I remember that photo shoot. It wasn't that long ago, and I got braids. And so I had these long braids, and we're like, what can we do with that? And I remember we were in the studio, and I was like, I kept flipping my hair, but I kept losing my balance, too, because I flipped, and I would, like, fall off a point, but I'm, like, on my point shoes, so I'm holding my hands like this, and then I'm, like, flipping back. And we got it. Yeah, but it was really fun. And it was fun. Like that whole photo shoot. There's actually a bunch of pictures, and they all involve also playing with the hair, which we don't usually do. So yeah, it was great.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:37:36]:
It was another improvised moment.
Adji Cissoko [00:37:38]:
Yeah, exactly.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:37:40]:
Any other questions? Anyone?
Adji Cissoko [00:37:43]:
No?
Michael Sean Breeden [00:37:44]:
All right. Bruce.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:37:46]:
Bruce. Come on, Bruce.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:37:54]:
And I thought it was good. I'll pass back you in a second. So when you came out on stage and my first reaction I know you guys can all put your hair in a bun, but my first reaction is, where did her hair go? I mean, it was gone. With such curly hair, is that particularly difficult?
Adji Cissoko [00:38:21]:
Honestly, it's fine. But also, that's all I'm used to.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:38:24]:
Right.
Adji Cissoko [00:38:25]:
It would have been like when I had the long braids, it was much harder because you don't want to have a huge thing on your head. So putting it all back was like a different thing. But with the courier, it's fine.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:38:38]:
By the way, Calvin says he's the same height as you if you're on flats.
Adji Cissoko [00:38:43]:
Yes.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:38:44]:
He's not a short guy.
Adji Cissoko [00:38:45]:
No, not at all. You and Calvin were so wonderful dancing together. I just wondered, are there other partners that you enjoy dancing with that you feel there's just really a great structure between you? I mean, I haven't gotten as many opportunities in lines. I dance with a lot of people. Right. I would say one main partner, but within that, I've done the same part of it with three other guys and a lot of people. We are all very tall at lines, but I've also danced with someone that was shorter than me, and it doesn't really matter as much at lines. And then here, I got to dance with Calvin. I'm getting to dance with Ben, which so different, right? Because we're doing different ballet. But I love dancing with both of them. Ben is incredible. He's an incredible partner. He has done swan leg before, so it's really a perfect fit because at least he knows what he's doing, right? When I'm still figuring it out, I'm like, where's my hand? Where's my jamar Roberts is building a piece on us. He's creating a trio with India and me and Olivia. And I was like, Jamar, I feel like I would love to dance with you. And he's like, I'd love that, too. And so I feel like I'm interested in dancing with everyone. See, what? Yeah.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:40:18]:
Any other questions?
Adji Cissoko [00:40:20]:
No?
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:40:21]:
All right. Well, Adji, thank you so much for joining us this morning. It was such a delight. And we just were obsessed with your dancing. You're so beautiful, and it was so great to see you dancing again this year, and we look forward to what's next for you.
Michael Sean Breeden [00:40:32]:
Can't wait to see more.
Adji Cissoko [00:40:34]:
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, everyone.
Rebecca King Ferraro [00:40:48]:
Conversations on Dance is part of the Acast creator network. For more information, visit conversationsondancepodpod.com.